Episode 123 – Following An Unconventional CPA

In this podcast, I interviewed Michael Rozbruch, a nationally recognized entrepreneur and the founder of Tax and Business Solutions Academy™, a training and consulting services company that trains and helps other CPAs, Attorneys and Enrolled Agents to build highly profitable practices through proven marketing systems and strategies.

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Richard Jacobs: This is Richard Jacobs with Speakeasy Authority Marketing. Today, I’ve got a very interesting guest, Mike Rozbruch. He helps CPAs, attorneys and enrolled agents add a tax resolution component to their practice. As I’ve been speaking with Mike a number of times over the past few weeks, very interesting what he has to offer and I’ve actually discovered that a couple of my clients have worked with Mike, been around for many years and it’s a fascinating thing that he is going to be talking about, it’s a great way in 2016 to add a component to your practice that may help bring in a lot more clients you didn’t even know you could service and help bolster you if your practice area is not doing so well, if there is a lot of competition that’s really putting the hurt on your retainers and your particular practice area. So, welcome to the call, Mike. So, you can do it better justice than I can. Tell me a little bit about your background and what you’re doing, how you got to this point.

Mike Rozbruch: I am a CPA by profession, got my license in the mid-80s and went to work in the private sector. I was an unusual type of CPA as I had never worked a day in my life in public accounting. I went the private sector route and worked my way up from junior staff accountant up to CFO but as I climbed the ranks, actually I was let go from my last job in Los Angeles as CFO for a major retailer and wholesaler here, I realized that the corporate world wasn’t for me. I wasn’t cut out for the politics and the games. Secondly, I knew that I could really never, ever work for anybody ever again after that last stint back in 1998, so I knew I couldn’t work for anyone again and I was looking at things to do and I remembered watching on television a few months earlier.

In the Fall of 1997 when they had the Senate televised finance hearings where the average middleclass American got up in front of the TV cameras and basically said how the IRS ruin their lives, padlock their businesses, put them out on the streets, seize their house, seize their car, all because they owed money for the IRS, not because they were cheating, not because they were tax protesters, not because they were committing tax evasion, they simply got behind the eight-ball because life happens. The IRS came and basically inflicted all this immense pain on them and devastated their lives and I was saying for myself as I remember watching this, I go, “You know what? I can help those people.” That is because I’ve come from a David vs. Goliath background.

I was bullied in school, I always rooted for the underdog, and I hated the big bureaucracy, big government and big brother. At the time I realized there were millions of people who were getting threatening notices from the IRS from Maine to Hawaii. It didn’t matter if you were a physician, a doctor, a truck driver, it didn’t matter what walk of life you came from. Millions of people got snared up in the IRS’ crosshairs and at the time nobody was doing this kind of work, very few people were actually holding themselves out for doing IRS representation solely. If you have an IRS problem, you went to your tax preparer or you actually went to a tax attorney who mucked it up even more because they didn’t know what they were doing because no one showed them.

They were not doing this day in and day out and there were really no rules back then. Then President Clinton signed into law in June the 1998 tax reform and restructuring act which basically gave birth to the tax resolution industry because that law gave American taxpayers rights they never had. They now had appeal rights. In other words, if the IRS went into their bank account, you could get that action appealed and removed or lifted, they came up with their Offer in Compromise, a debt settlement program, like bankruptcy, a fresh start with regard to federal income and payroll taxes. So I decided to hang out a shingle and start representing people before the IRS but let me tell you it wasn’t easy.

At the time, I didn’t know what I was doing. I was doing stuff that everyone else was doing, which was advertising in the yellow pages with a big dumb yellow page ad with a picture of me standing in front of a book case with the name of my company, in other words, it wasn’t direct response. From there, since I was struggling big time, even though I knew it was a huge market and there were a lot of potential clients, I basically stumbled across some of my mentors. I stumbled across Dan Kennedy, Paul Hartunian and Bill Glazer. I went to all their seminars and conferences because there wasn’t any marketing or sales information in the tax or county space at the time, so I went outside the industry to learn, to explore, and what I heard from those guys.

A light bulb went off in my head and I said if I can port over their direct response methods and strategies and market for people who have IRS problems, I know that I wouldn’t have to worry about ever having enough business again and that’s exactly what I did. I took their stuff, I put the blinders on and took their stuff and basically made it my own with regard to marketing for people who had IRS problems. When I got into this business, I was about $100,000 in debt on credit cards because prior to me getting laid off in the corporate world, I was transitioning from job to job for a number of years looking for that perfect job, trying to make more money because I had a wife and two young daughters with a mortgage in Los Angeles.

Richard Jacobs: At this point, you said you were $100,000 in debt. You really got to some high levels with your practice, not to brag but I just wanted to tell the attorneys what was possible for you?

Mike Rozbruch: So, within a relatively short period of time, I was able to pay off $100,000 in debt and a $50,000 home equity line within 14 months. In my first year of business and my first full 12 months of business, I grossed $171,000 just from IRS representation, just from people who had IRS problems. I wasn’t an accounting firm, I didn’t do monthly accounting or bookkeeping or payroll service, I didn’t even do the tax returns, I outsourced all the tax preparation because my experience, even as a CPA, my experience consisted of doing some manual 1040s for family and friends. But I found other CPAs, other EAs who were hungry that I could feed them business all year round by having them do my clients’ tax returns.

By my second year, I was doing over $375,000 in collected fees and deposits in the bank and by my eleventh year, in 2011, we actually had a partner by that time and we went national under a lot of direct response on radio, we deposited $23 million in the corporation’s bank account, just from IRS representation work. Within 13 or 14 years, I went from zero and I started on my dining room table with no clients, nothing, and in the first few months, I was taking money out of my saving account to float the business, I did that for quite a few months until I figured out how to know where and when my next new client was coming from. I put systems in place that I could predict how many new clients I would get based on how many direct mail letters I sent out.

How many calls I would get, how many of those calls would turn into prospects, of those prospects, how many of them would make appointments, how many of them would actually show up and then how many of them would actually retain me. I came up with that system and would dial it up. One of the things I want to say why my firm grew the way it grew and why it was so successful is this. There is one thing that the attorneys can take away from this conversation is I never ever took my foot off the marketing gas pedal, never. I would never start marketing, get a bunch of business and then stop marketing for fear of I wouldn’t know what to do having too much business.

A lot of my members tell me the same thing. I’m a firm believer in filling in the gaps. In other words, I’ll hire people to do the work. I’ll get the work done. You just make sure I have enough clients in work and I will find a way, I’ll figure out how to get the work done and that’s why the firm grew the way it did. I did all the technical training at my firm. I have actually represented nearly 2,000 people and small businesses before the IRS during a 16-year span. I knew the technical land and I certainly knew the marketing, sales and practice management end. Since I really loved doing all that technical training at my firm, I figured because I would meet a lot of my peers and colleagues at these professional seminars and stuff and the underlying theme was 90% of them were always struggling.

90% of them were always in debt or struggling and they weren’t successful in their practice, so I figured, “Look. I don’t have the high IQ and I am not the one to create everything from scratch but if I could do it, they could do it”. So, I unlocked 16 years of experience and put together a business in a box, if you will, that bolts on to any size, accounting tax or law practice, and now I teach others how to become successful. I teach others exactly the exact steps, the exact secrets, tips and strategies that I use and my members use to become successful.

Richard Jacobs: You talked about yourself being a CPA and the audience listening is attorneys. Do you have to have a law degree? Do you have to have a CPA degree in order to do this? What are the requirements?

Mike Rozbruch: Actually attorneys were really uniquely positioned to take advantage of this because there are only three people on the planet who can represent clients before the IRS. It’s a CPA, an enrolled agent who is accredited by the IRS. An attorney, so as long as they are an active member of the Bar in good standing, can represent clients before the IRS. There were many reasons I like doing it but let me tell you one of the big reasons was, as a non-attorney, I felt like I got to practice law before the IRS. It’s probably the only area I know in law where a non-attorney basically gets to practice law, at least on an administrative basis. I am not saying this is not going to court and by the way; 99% of this work the attorney doesn’t have to leave the office. All this work is done conveniently in his office over the phone and fax and FedEx. That is how the work is done.

Richard Jacobs: How about the clients themselves that you get a tax resolution; what are the top reasons people someone needs for you to help them with tax issues?

Mike Rozbruch: The ideal client is usually generally male, between the ages of 38 and 60, divorced, generally has two kids, is self-employed or had very little withheld from their paycheck, has prior substance abuse issues or prior alcoholism, has moved residences in the last two to four years, has three to five years of unfiled returns, his bank account is being levied and is a big time procrastinator but they want to fix the problem and don’t know how. That is probably one of your most profitable types of clients. That’s your ideal tax resolution client right there.

Richard Jacobs: In that I heard people that haven’t filed their taxes in a number of years that seems like one of the key areas.

Mike Rozbruch: If let’s say, you get 50 tax resolution clients who hire you, at least 25 of them are going to be considered non-filers, which means they are going to have between three to seven years on average of unfiled returns and, let me back up and say why that is and usually what happens to someone who becomes a non-filer is a negative life altering event takes place in their life like the death or serious illness of their wife or husband, loss of a job or loss of both jobs if both spouses are working and what happens is they raid their 401(k) or IRA with every intention of putting the money back within the 60-day rollover period but that doesn’t happen because either they get underemployed or non-employed, in a nasty divorce or a nasty custody battle.

It puts the filing of the taxes, believe it or not, on the backburner and so what happens is one year goes by and they don’t hear from the IRS because it takes the IRS sometimes two, three years to catch up to you. Two years go by, they don’t hear from the IRS. The third year, they go to Starbucks, hand the barista their debit card and the barista gives it back and says it’s not valid, it’s not going through and they go to their ready teller, the ATM and there is no money there – the IRS hijacked their bank account. Now, they are like a deer in the headlights and that’s usually when they seek out professional representation.

Richard Jacobs: What other circumstances will people need tax resolution help for? What about audits or anything else?

Mike Rozbruch: Most of the work in tax resolution is collection related. It’s basically debt negotiation. 80% to 90% of IRS tax resolution clients are clients who owe but can’t pay. The other 10% to 20% are people who are being audited by the IRS and there is a strategy on how to prevail in audits with the clients that have audit issues. There is a whole litany of different bites at the apple, there are numerous bites at the apple. Once the IRS says we are going to assess your client because he doesn’t have receipts or this, that and the other, there are several bites at the apple to help your client. Audits are one. People with payroll tax problems. I can’t tell you how many small businesses and even medium sized businesses would get in trouble because their controller or bookkeeper would embezzle funds.

It is so common, it’s not even funny because the shareholder, the owner of the company is responsible, they can be held willful and responsible for the payroll taxes because if they don’t pay over the payroll tax as it’s a trust tax, it’s a very low bar for the IRS to come after them criminally because it’s stealing the government’s money. Those are very lucrative cases for the professional. Those cases command much higher fees, there is a lot more at stake and the cases are more complex, they take longer but business payroll tax cases are very prevalent and they are very profitable.

As of today, there are 13.4 million people, taxpayers, in the IRS’ collection division. There are 13.4 million people that need help to resolve their issues, so the market is huge and they come from all walks of life, even some of my clients were physicians. Believe it or not, I had a number of attorneys I used to represent. Attorneys are notorious for getting into tax problems with the IRS because sometimes some of you guys use your trust fund proceeds to float your practice, which you can’t do. But preaching to the choir.

Richard Jacobs: How much is an average client worth in this area?

Mike Rozbruch: An average client is worth a minimum of $5,000 and that’s with someone owing at least $10,000 or more. If they owe $10,000 or more, have several years of unfiled returns and they are being levied, the case is minimum $5,000. My average fee was $8,700. My average client fee was $8,700. Attorneys can charge, actually, more than CPAs and enrolled agents because they are attorneys. So, a minimum $5,000 to represent a client before the IRS and up. I had a tremendous amount of cases in the $15,000 range, in the $25,000 range and there were the unusual type cases that commanded fees of 50 grand and up but it’s not unusual for a small business who is grossing a million to two million bucks, has a quarter of a million or $300,000 of payroll taxes they haven’t paid. A case like that is a minimum $25,000 case.

Richard Jacobs: Is there a busy season where there are peaks, whether on April 15^th or is it just a continuous thing all year?

Mike Rozbruch: Certainly, during tax season, taxes are top of mind, so you will be busier but the IRS does not have a season to levy taxpayers or file notices of federal tax liens on taxpayers or garnish their paycheck, so the business is all year round. Actually, one of the things I talk about to the CPAs and EAs because they are on an income roller coaster. After tax season, their income falls off a cliff. This is a way to even that out, even that roller coaster out and actually guarantee profits and cash flow for May through December.

Richard Jacobs: For regular self-employed people that don’t have a big business, did they ever complain about affording $8700, if they have tax problems and they have to pay the IRS, how would they pay your fee?

Mike Rozbruch: I have a model that I teach that the practitioner is paid in full before the case settles. All of my pricing strategies, my matrix, and the fee schedule is all flat fee basis. Each case has three phases essentially and you charge for each one. The first phase is discovery or investigation where you are getting the tax transcripts from the IRS and you are analyzing them, which by the way is automated today. The second phase is compliance, which is preparing all the delinquent tax returns and making sure they get filed because the IRS isn’t going to negotiate with anyone until the client is in current compliance with their back filings. The third phase is the resolution, which could be an offer in compromise, a properly structured installment agreement, a Currently Not Collectible or Financial Hardship status or a penalty abatement request, so those are the types of phases that go into each collection case.

You charge for each phase of that and I have engagement letters with all of that language and how to charge and so the way I work a fee basis is we collected usually a 30% deposit before we would start work but we would tell the client, “We are going to work your case as if we have been paid in full” and how we get paid in full before the case settles is that we get a duly executed, signed, a credit card authorization form to secure the future recurring monthly payments or an ACH automatic debit to their bank account. We have before a case would get worked, before we would even deposit the retainer check, the deposit check, we would make sure we had the credit card authorization form to secure the future payments or the ACH.

That is how you get paid and you know what people say to me, “Someone who owes thousands to the IRS, how are they going to come up with money?” Here is the answer. If someone owes 50, 60 grand to the IRS and your fee is five, six or seven thousand dollars, let’s say they pay that five, six or seven thousand dollars against their $57,000 liability to the IRS, they still owe $50,000, and they still need help. Usually when people are in enough pain and discomfort, trust me, they will find the money. It’s like, if someone is charged with a serious misdemeanor or felony, is that person going to pro se represent themselves or are they going to get professional representation. It’s the same thing here and I would tell people, “Look. You need to make that phone call to your mother, your father, your cousin or your friend to get their credit card because let me explain to you what having no money really looks like.

I would explain to them if they don’t do anything to fix this, that they are basically going to be living under a rock in that all their money in any bank account is going to be absconded by the IRS and they won’t be able to work a W2 job because they are going to garnish up to 70% of their net pay if they don’t get this fixed. That is why people will find the money and that’s why I say the IRS is a terrific marketing partner. You got a built-in marketing partner with the IRS.

Richard Jacobs: In your training, do you have specific scripts on how to handle price objections and resistance?

Mike Rozbruch: Absolutely. We have scripts for the intake, what to say. Let’s say, your marketing is working well, you got to know how to answer the phones properly, so there is an intake script for the front office on how to set up the appointment, how to qualify the client because if someone owes $500, I mean you don’t want to waste your time with someone like that. There are scripts for how to close, I call it my one call close strategy or I have another name for it – my high ticket sales consultation strategy that I teach how to take them through a four-step process to close the client.

Richard Jacobs: How long does it take to resolve a typical case, ballpark from short to long?

Mike Rozbruch: The IRS these days, they cut their head count and Congress hasn’t appropriated money for the enforcement budget in a number of years. It has taken longer now but on average, let’s say, if someone comes to you and they are an offer in compromise candidate, they are doing an offer in compromise, from beginning to end, from when you submit the offer until it gets accepted, a minimum of six months, could be six to nine months. If there is tax preparation that needs to be done prior to the filing of the offer in compromise, add another couple of months.

So, you could be in the case for a year – that’s not unusual at all. These cases can take up to a year and in a lot of cases sometimes longer. But you’re paid in advance. You are not working on contingency here and you are not working on getting paid after the case settles because I got news for you – you’re not going to get any money after the case settles. If someone owed thousands of dollars to the IRS, there’s not a big impetus on the client to pay you after their case settles.

Richard Jacobs: You mentioned early on that most of this is desk work, so how much time and involvement does it take in a typical case?

Mike Rozbruch: Let’s say, a typical case, someone who has two or three years of unfiled returns and is a good offer in compromise candidate, so you have some time spent on setting up the file, getting the transcripts, analyzing them and doing the tax preparation. Even if you outsource it, the amount of time I am going to quote is about the same. Also actually the number of hours, manual labor hours, you’re actually going to touch the file is probably 20 to 25 hours.

In that particular case, if you are doing three or four years of returns, IRS transcript investigation, getting a levy released and doing an offer in compromise, that’s an $8500 fee right there. Per my pricing schedule, that’s an $8500 fee. If you are spending 20 hours or so, 25 hours, that’s about $427 an hour effective hour billing rate. Once you get good and once you automate it because they are software out there, there’s case management tax resolution software where you could shave a good five, six hours off of that, now your effective rate is over $500 an hour, actually close to $600 an hour.

Richard Jacobs: Can an attorney help people in their entire state or even nationally? …

Mike Rozbruch: First of all, being an attorney in good standing of your State Bar, you are permitted to represent clients in all 50 states. My office was in Encino, California and we represented people, I represented people throughout every single state in the Union. All you have to do is be active in good standing in your state, you can represent clients no matter where they are. From a marketing standpoint, if I was starting out as an attorney wanting to get into this niche, I would start out with local positioning, local marketing, to start out with.

If you are already doing some of this or you want to go large right away, then you can certainly embark on regional or national marketing with marketing to people with notices of federal tax liens. By the way, it’s a public record. Once the IRS files a notice of federal tax lien on a taxpayer or their business, that’s considered public record, so we already know that that person, that’s a hot lead, that person definitely has an IRS problem so there are ways to market and reach those people as well as, I know you teach this much more than I do, but there are also ways to reach people on the internet through social media, content marketing, SEO, etc.

You have got to figure within that 10 or 15-mile radius one in fifty American taxpayers has a problem; that’s how it breaks down, you know, 13.4 million taxpayers out of the total population of taxpayers, not the population of the country but the population of, actually, people who file 1040. It breaks down to, one in fifty taxpayers has a problem they need help with.

Richard Jacobs: You talked about scripts and all this training that you have. How much study is involved to be proficient at doing this?

Mike Rozbruch: The learning curve can be rough. They don’t teach this stuff. If you have an LLM, there are one or two courses on IRS collection but they really don’t teach this in college or a business school or even in law school except for in the LLM program if I’m not mistaken. There are tons of resources out there. I teach the basics. One of my modules that I offer is called Case Resolution and I teach the basics and I do monthly training webinars as well for offers in compromise and penalty abatements and statute of limitations. There are so many resources out there where practitioners can get the technical training and I recommend a couple of them. Technical training is probably the easiest part. You can learn the technical. It will take some time to get proficient but the way I learned is I represented as many clients as I could when I didn’t know what the heck I was doing and I learned as I went along. The hardest part is actually the marketing; getting a steady stream of new clients, month in, month out.

Richard Jacobs: We are going to be getting to the marketing part because it’s critical but just to reiterate, you said most of the work can be given to paralegals or secretaries or other staff to get that for the attorney or how much could be outsourced in general?

Mike Rozbruch: The actual in-office work for someone who has an offer in compromise or a collection due process hearing, all of that, so 80% of the grunt work and when I say grunt work, I’m including the client contact, getting the documentation from the client and then actually doing the meat and potatoes of any IRS collection case, which is going to be 90% of your work is completing what’s called the 433-A, which is the Collection Information Statement. It’s an eight-page form, which is basically an income statement on the taxpayer and a balance sheet. You have to have all the income, expenses, assets and liabilities and the supporting documentation for most of the entries that go on this form.

That can all be done by the paralegal. So, the attorney’s time is really spent on negotiating with the IRS, on the phone with the IRS. That is where the attorney’s time comes in but, most, 80% of the work can be performed by non-licensed people. On the tax preparation sites, I know a lot of attorneys don’t do tax preparation, neither did I, but I worked out a deal where the client contracted with me, in other words the client didn’t know that somebody else was preparing the return and in my engagement letter I said that we will engage third parties when necessary; however, even though the independent contractor signed the return, the return looked as if it came from us; it was in our report, cover or binder, it had our letterhead and cover letter.

The only thing that was not ours was the signature on the actual tax return, which really clients don’t care about, they just care about that the return is accurate and filed. I would collect, let’s say, for example, if I was contracting with a client, I would charge $400 for a simple itemized W2 and I would pay the independent contractor one-third of that fee. Whether it took him five minutes or 15 hours, he got a third of that fee and he did all the work.

Richard Jacobs: Before we did this interview, you mentioned there is a way to do a fast start for an attorney to get there first one or two clients -You had to do it with a newsletter or referral marketing – can you talk about that briefly?

Mike Rozbruch: I’ll bet you dollars to donuts that most of the attorneys listening to this call have cases right under their nose in their database or with their current clients because those clients don’t know that the attorney offers these services. I call it a stealth referral letter. I have a whole referral system toolkit that has external referral letters that CPAs will keep as mortgage brokers, real estate professionals etc. but the internal one is my stealth letter where, basically, the attorney does a mailing to their database, letting them know that they now offer IRS representation services in these following areas. You’d be surprised how many of their current clients are going to call them or someone that the client knows because as you know, everyone’s circle of influence is about 200 people. I am sure that some family member or one of their friends is experiencing an IRS issue that they need help with. The first place to look is right under their nose in their database.

Richard Jacobs: Without getting deep into it but let’s just give the attorneys a little bit of help marketing. A couple of suggestions on how do they start marketing themselves for this once they have decided they want to do it. What works and what doesn’t that you’ve seen?

Mike Rozbruch: The first thing to do is to send a letter out to their internal customers. The second thing they should do is probably place a lead generation ad in one of their local daily newspapers or in a trade journal or even in the local Bar chapter. I used to advertise in a local paper quite a bit and it got great response. I advertised anywhere that tradespeople, people in the trades, anything connected to real estate is a great place to advertise. I start off with a lead generation ad and definitely also some content marketing, some SEO marketing to get positioned as the go-to person and you do that through information and education; basically, answering questions that are going on in the head of someone who has an IRS problem, driving them to an opt in page where they can request additional information so you can capture their information and continue to interact with them.

The radio is a great place. The radio generated millions of dollars for me in new business. I also teach how to do radio ads effectively, how to buy radio, what the message should entail, who should do this spot, when should it be played, what shows should they be on, so that plus press releases too. We have press releases to get on free radio. I have done over 225 free radio and TV interviews over the years, just PSAs, public service announcements, especially during tax time where radio and TV stations want experts on to give tips to their viewers and listeners about if you owe money, if you can’t pay, should you file a return, stuff like that, which would get a lot of people calling the office because you can answer questions on the air in some cases. Lead generation, direct mail, radio, internet marketing, those are some of the major places that you can market.

Richard Jacobs: Tell listeners about your course and what they get and how much there is and how they can get access to it because it sounds like it’s a no-brainer to really help out attorneys, especially if they are having problems in their practice area and want to go beyond that skill without having to learn a whole new area of law in depth?

Mike Rozbruch: A lot of the attorneys could set up a separate tab on their website devoted to tax problem resolution and use that as a landing page, so what I offer is like a business in a box. It’s four modules, there is a marketing mastery module where I have all of the samples and examples of my best performing lead generation ads, there are examples of special reports, the lead generation magnets, a media kit, all kinds of template letters, the referral letters and, by the way, all this is also in digital word doc format on the members only site and I’ll talk about that in a minute. The second module is Sales where I go through in-depth my one-call close strategy and then all the client correspondence letters that nearly in every situation that you will ever need is in the Client Control and Practice Management module.

The fourth module is case resolution where I walk you through step by step line item by line item of this 433-A of what goes there and how to strategize; in other words, how to get your client looking in the most favorable position with the IRS. People would say, “I’m broke” and I would say, “You know what? That’s the best time to approach the IRS with a settlement”. In my world, bad is good, good is bad. You want to be as broken, destitute as possible because now you’re going to get the best settlement available. I teach you and strategize on how to present the client in that light. So, on my website, which is rozstrategies.com, the complete package is basically separated between what’s called a success manual and a roadmap to success. I usually sell those separately but anyone on this call who wants to take advantage of it, I would bundle it and give them a nice discount, so they would probably need to call the office because I don’t have a web form up for that, Rich.

Richard Jacobs: What’s the number of the phone to call your office?

Mike Rozbruch: People can call me at (888) 670-0303. Or you can email me at info@rozstrategies.com. That’s also the name of the website, rozstrategies.com and if they say they heard us on the call, I’ll extend that bundle package. Right now, I sell those two things together. They are $2497 on the website. One sells for $997, the other one, is $1497, which comes out to $2494. I’ll offer it at $1,997 for anyone who wants to take advantage of it.

Richard Jacobs: Anything else that I should have asked you about tax representation that attorneys should know when considering this?

Mike Rozbruch: They are perfectly suited for this because of their training of negotiation and they probably have clients like this in their database. They just need to alter their intake questions when someone calls up for whatever reason. Another thing is that 99% of these people are good people. Yes, they are procrastinators but they are not bad people, they are not like the good people that got into a bad life altering situation.

 

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